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Talk:Dorwinion (Rhûn)
I have read that Dorwinion is mostly an elf realm, which makes since--predominately speculated as an Avari Kingdom. If that is true, then why do we always seem to allow men placement here? It is speculated also that Dorwinion was an Avarin land.[11] http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Avari :honestly, Dorwinion as a mannish realm as it is üresented in MERP makes more sense, but people have differing theories about that ghost.I have chosen to follow MERP, as there is not such a thing as "canon" about it.Same for Dark lands, there is no "Canon".--Haerangil (talk) 06:29, October 29, 2018 (UTC) Well discovered by Numenorians and what is written in Lost Tales is about the best "canon" that we can come up with. But okay then, if go by ICE/MERPS then what is actually at the Dark Lands? I know Ninko, the dragon, and Ungoliant went there (according to MERPS) but are we just going to dump all the loremaster stuff there as well? We should probably come up with a backstory as to how all these immigrants came to the Dark Lands after Ungoliant devouring everything. Moran half valar (talk) 15:15, October 29, 2018 (UTC) :MERP had little if anything at all about the Dark lands... i'm not sure about Ninko, he is mentioned in MERPS Gorgoroth module, ... I also do not think Ungolianth was in the Dark Lands, i think in some unfinished material in lost tales Ungolianth survived on one of the cursed isles and was slain by Earendil.Therefore she should not be very important for the main continent. I also still think that after destruction of the Entwives Gardens Dorwinion should become a mannish realm, and at the times of Bladortjin the elves probably did not have anymore close ties with that country.It had before been conquered by several waves of Easterlings including Wainriders and Balchoth, i cant't see how any elven realm outside of the dense forests of Rhun could have withstood these forces.--Haerangil (talk) 17:55, December 15, 2018 (UTC) Rulers of Dorwinion after King Bladorthin I As per the historical/canonical timeframe we have proposed, I was wondering who is King Bladorthin's descendant. Given everything on Bladorthin of Dorwinion's page, I say we make Lanthir King Bladorthin's son and the defacto ruler of Dorwinion. If not him, then we need another elf lord. I don't mind the civil war thing, but I still think a king would have to be in place. And if the new Bladorthin is a man and sides with Sauron, then there should be a good ruler as well. Moran half valar (talk) 16:41, December 13, 2018 (UTC) :Can't be! Bladorthin outlived Lanthir or at least ruled until the 28. Century, we do not really have any information about Lanthir except he ruled about 11. Century -according to MERP and ruled about 2950 TA according to MEPBM.--Haerangil (talk) 13:47, December 14, 2018 (UTC) Oh really? Bummer, didn't know that about Lanthir. In such a case then, should I make up a fanon descendant? Moran half valar (talk) 20:04, December 14, 2018 (UTC) :only solution i could think of is thar Lanthir is only cLled prince not king, so maybe he was Bladorthins son and co-ruler or ruled Fter Bladorthin had went into exile to Edhellond?--Haerangil (talk) 17:55, December 15, 2018 (UTC) Well since Lanthir is a prince maybe King Bladorthin lived past him. Who then would he name heir to his throne if Lanthir and his grandson were killed? If Bladorthin is considered to be a brother of Lenwe or it would be someone related... also, In the storyline Bladorthin goes from Edhellond to Dorwinion--not from Dorwinion to Edhellond. I also want to mention that a list of kings is already semi-established for Dol Amroth, so I don't see how Bladorthin could maintain the title of King under the numerous princes of Dol Amroth and under the King of Arnor/Gondor. So I think we need to adjust our timeline on the lineage of the ruler of Dorwinion since Bladorthin is an elf and most likely hold the title of King even over the Realms-Masters of Dorwinin. You have established a villain leading the civil war in Dorwinion (Bladorthin II Koldana), but I would like to see a good character established as well. If u don't have one or if you don't reply, I'll make the character up or use an existing canonical character to take charge of lordship over the Dorwinion lands. Moran half valar (talk) 18:50, December 15, 2018 (UTC) New History I like the new origin and history of Dorwinion much better.It is in accord with JRRTs timeline in the appendices with two exceptions...the great bond between the Northmen of Rhovanion and the Dúnedain of the South Kingdom started with Romendacil I in the 4-500s, and Vidugavia lived and ruled in the eastbighth of Mirkwood... i think Dorwinion should already have existed as an allied semi-province of gondor in the 1000s , if Vidugavias realm extended over Dorwinion he would not have ruled it hy himself, but maybe through a son or close relative who intermarried with the local clans.--Haerangil (talk) 14:29, May 31, 2019 (UTC) Yeah I think you are right. But Vidugavias realm does extend over Dorwinion to where Gondor's realm under Hyarmendacil I's realm extends just below Dorwinion. I'll add that, but who was king during T.A. 2941? I mean was it ruled by a Realms-Master? Can a Realms-Master be descended from Bladorthin? Moran half valar (talk) 19:00, May 31, 2019 (UTC) :who knows if they had a king at that time, but Bladorthin II and Hengon are mentioned in some fan-sources so personally i perhaps would go for king Hengon.Those local Lords might be descendants of Bladorthin i.--Haerangil (talk) 10:42, June 1, 2019 (UTC)